Curse

Neo-LD · Jun 04, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Hmm, Im reading this thread a bit late but Ill start by just noting that I agree with all the people saying 'play to win' etc. I also am happy to see the changes to impirial isle, but theres one thing that I dont think has been discussed here yet...

I like split as a counter to spike, but I firmly believe that no spike is completely invicible 8v8. It should be possible to fight them straight and have a legitimate chance to win... just so that playing spike on maps like burning / jade / formerly impirial isnt = autowin. Sadly, I dont think that iB gave it much effort, even though they (almost) knew for sure that focspike was coming again.

I mean, wouldnt taking an insanely high number of interupts and knockdowns, and collectively 'overextending' to get in the ritualists faces be an effective way to shut it down?

JR · Jun 04, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Hmm, Im reading this thread a bit late but Ill start by just noting that I agree with all the people saying 'play to win' etc. I also am happy to see the changes to impirial isle, but theres one thing that I dont think has been discussed here yet...

I like split as a counter to spike, but I firmly believe that no spike is completely invicible 8v8. It should be possible to fight them straight and have a legitimate chance to win... just so that playing spike on maps like burning / jade / formerly impirial isnt = autowin.

Spike does have the advantage 8 vs 8, it's that simple. The thing that balances it is the ability to simply out-play it with tactics on most maps, the problem with Imperial being that it was 8 vs 8 straight up or nothing.

I agree that a lot of spike can be beaten 8 vs 8, by simply wearing them down and disrupting as much as possible. The problem here is that the type of spike EW was running could not be worn down. The use of spirit spammers meant the Necros had insane energy, and could keep spiking all day as soon as their skills lit up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Sadly, I dont think that iB gave it much effort, even though they (almost) knew for sure that focspike was coming again.

I mean, wouldnt taking an insanely high number of interupts and knockdowns, and collectively 'overextending' to get in the ritualists faces be an effective way to shut it down?

Yes, they could have loaded up with some hugely anti-spike metagamed build, with millions of interrupts. EW could also have loaded up with Thumpway.

Greedy Gus · Jun 04, 2006, 03:49 PM // 15:49

I believe that iB was very familiar with the build, and knew they couldn't take it head on. It's not your average spike build, they have an enormous energy engine and an amazing defense. Trying to win over time with pressure and interrupts is probably going to be a losing battle in regard to resources.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jun 04, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Shout-out to Gaile!

And Krieger's sister.

Spike is one of those things that is just a hard thing to face. You see it in HA because there is no manuvering or splitting, but in a GvG there should be manuverability. My guild was running a ele spike and we made some perfect spikes where only 3 ele's could get it off. Its just not interupting as soon as cry recharges or whatever. My guild got a skip to halls and bloodspike was holding. Bloodspike comes up to spike us out and we made a great running spike and spike out a necro. They retreated, but at two minutes we went out and made a perfect spike. In HA there is usually a SB/Infuser and even here they could do nothing. A boon prot is even worse at stopping spikes and in an enviornment where you can't stop every spike there will always be those lucky kills that you can't stop. It might not be enough, but when VoD comes you have a serious upper hand. You can take out most all NPC's in one shot (if a FoC spike) and the enemy team already has DP. With 6 secondary healers their guild lord is pretty safe unless you take out a good amount of their healers (not counting the Rit) and then it will still be harder. They can spike out two monks in 20 seconds easily and then for your guild lord its gg.

The problem is that some spikes are plain uninfusable and a boon prot has a lesser chance of catching the spike.
The next problem is a necro spike will usually have more than one skill the spike with (FoC/Descerate or Shadow Strike/Lifebane) and that will 2 spirit spammers they can just use the next skill and spike in another 7-10 seconds easily.

Slooty Booty · Jun 05, 2006, 03:12 AM // 03:12

It's all been said, EW played to win and they now have gold capes. Complaining that it's boring to watch is ridiculous. Some observers seem to think that when a guild is on Observer Mode it's their job to entertain the observer community. Well, then you don't understand that Observer Mode is a privilage, not some tv show. Top guilds don't think "how can I make this match entertaining for Observey Q. Wammo?" Play to win is the philosophy for all competitive guilds, and that's exactly what EW did. If you don't find that exciting then don't watch it, but don't complain about it either

NOTE: Not talking about people mentioning the Imperial Isle's heavy Spike favor, because that is very true and I am glad anet fixed it at least somewhat.

Legacy Virus · Jun 05, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

agreed with slooty, i dont actually see how you guys have managed to make 6 pages on this topic? so what they played a spike build...so did the other team yeah it was boring to watch, but if its boring to watch then heres an idea dont watch it. someone didnt sit you down and force you to watch the match, and if they did im sorry. If i ever get to the finals, my thoughts arent gonna be man...this build were playing is gonna be so boring for those people watching it, guess what 99% of people who are in observer chat dont know what they are talkign about anyways...."whats this" "how do you gvg" "why are they using that skill it sucks"....honestly either watch it or dont, dont sit here and complain because the guild who wanted to win played a build you found boring.

JR · Jun 05, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slooty Booty

Some observers seem to think that when a guild is on Observer Mode it's their job to entertain the observer community.

I remember the Te vs (I think) RUS game in the last play-offs, where Te had RUS pushed back and decided to wait 10 minutes for VoD. Someone on observer mode was actually flaming them for not putting on a better show and being boring...

sir lockt · Jun 06, 2006, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Sadly, I dont think that iB gave it much effort, even though they (almost) knew for sure that focspike was coming again.

Is that true? I believe EW played FoC one time before that... of course its known they CAN play it very good, but still its a gamble.

I think this discussion is more about the GH: imperial isle, which is extremely favorable for spikers, with the latest updates I hope it will improve, but I think EW made the best tactical choice, if you are at that level you dont play to entertain, you play for the title...

romO · Jun 06, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I remember the Te vs (I think) RUS game in the last play-offs, where Te had RUS pushed back and decided to wait 10 minutes for VoD. Someone on observer mode was actually flaming them for not putting on a better show and being boring...

That's a very flameable offense. If you don't put on a good show, then you don't deserve to be a top guild. I generally flame people when they don't wear the best looking armor in GvG because sometimes the best looking ones don't have the best stats. No one cares about stats because this is OBSERVER mode and we can't SEE stats. That stuff won't exactly win many people over, so I don't know why you wouldn't just use a PvE character with FoW armor or the best available PvP armor. I also tend to flame when they don't have the best hair, hair color, height, face, and skin color. I mean come on, if these guys are really "top guilds", they should know how to make a character, and its just embarrassing to see a group of ugly characters stand around for any more than 30 seconds. That's the problem with obs mode IMO. Learn to play, please.

Slooty Booty · Jun 06, 2006, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

That's a very flameable offense. If you don't put on a good show, then you don't deserve to be a top guild. I generally flame people when they don't wear the best looking armor in GvG because sometimes the best looking ones don't have the best stats. No one cares about stats because this is OBSERVER mode and we can't SEE stats. That stuff won't exactly win many people over, so I don't know why you wouldn't just use a PvE character with FoW armor or the best available PvP armor. I also tend to flame when they don't have the best hair, hair color, height, face, and skin color. I mean come on, if these guys are really "top guilds", they should know how to make a character, and its just embarrassing to see a group of ugly characters stand around for any more than 30 seconds. That's the problem with obs mode IMO. Learn to play, please.

Not to mention the serious lack of storm bows and fellblades

JR · Jun 06, 2006, 09:06 PM // 21:06

My Chaos Axe/Zodiac Shield negative energy set combo wins all the fans over, not to mention my hot hot purple 15k armor.

Patrograd · Jun 06, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

I found this excellent site today, EW's site:

http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/guild...-with-you.html

very interesting read in the context of this thread, especially this comment:

"Finals time! Our opponents are people we know well, most having been in our old rival and good friend Valandor. Before the match we’re not at all sure what they will run, expecting some version of their 3 monk metadenial as it’s a very reliable build, and also worried that they may attempt foc at some point, so we prepare a moderately crazy build the morning before designed to fight foc or pressure on their map that uses a 1 rit 1 monk backline with 2 rits in the midline to spike and assist the backline. For the first map we take a gamble that they won’t really expect us to open with foc and that they’re likely to be well prepared for warriors, so its time to scream “Foc this!” once again. "

shadex · Jun 16, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Man, when did GvG become WWF? It's not a spectator sport, there not in it to wow the 15 yearold kids and win them over to there sponsers build so they can make a nice royalty check this month... Last i checked winning or losing with style doesn't get you anything extra. Winning does however get you a cape.

I've been playing PVP games for a long time. This crap always comes up. The people that are bitching are the ones that don't have the brains to come up with something smart that works. The guys that defend it, most likely have.

Are you going to tell me that if you could make an invincable build you wouldn't? Isn't part of a tactics comming up with the right build? Wouldn't you call them idiots if they had 8 IWAY w/mo's, and got stomped?

EW won, because EW played smart. Part of playing smart is making sure you have the right tools. Having that build seemed to be the right tool for the job.

NikkiIsNub · Jun 17, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

I actually thought it was pretty funny and a good move on both teams that ran it's part.

I'm just going to leave it at that and agree with JR. Play to win. Kthanks. Besides, who *doesn't* want Euro-premades?